Why I No Longer Identify as a Feminist

I don’t remember ever not being a feminist. I toddled in marches of the 1970s with my mother. She became a second wave feminist in the 1960s after being denied a mortgage without a male guarantor and being told by her employer that she could not study for accountancy exams because “There’s no accounting for women.” Briefly flirting with radical feminism, she found their views extreme and unreasonable and was berated for her heterosexual relationships and love of feminine clothing (see her poem “Woman the Barricades“). She found her home in liberal feminism and from there was active in writing, marching and protesting for legal changes which would give her the same opportunities as men. By the late 1980s, she felt the main legal battles had been won, and largely retired from active campaigning though she continues to identify as a feminist and study women’s history.

Given this influence, of course I was a feminist, a liberal feminist. Growing up, I spoke angrily about the legality of rape within marriage (criminalized in 1990), and won a personal battle to take woodwork at school rather than cookery (I was terrible at it but not noticeably worse than I am at cooking). I criticized sexist attitudes at work, which were still quite unapologetic in the 90s, informing my boss that he was a “good boy” when he called me a “good girl” and refusing to say anything apart from “cheep” to any man who referred to me as a “bird.” Liberal feminism was aggressive then, but a quite different quality of aggression to the spiteful malevolence we see now. It was optimistic, almost playful. We were confident that we were winning. It was fun seeing how we could disconcert the perpetrators of sexist stereotypes and challenge casual sexism, often humorously. We did not think older men (or women) with sexist assumptions were terrible people or want them punished. We simply wanted them to realize the times had changed and catch up. Women are everywhere now. Get used to it.

At times, we needed to work with the radical feminists. Rape victims were still being dismissed or disbelieved. People still blamed victims for their clothing quite respectably. This needed to become routinely frowned upon. RadFems, who insisted that patriarchy was evident in everything, that the idea of gender needed to be destroyed and that men as a whole were dangerous and violent, were regarded as the biggest internal problem the movement had to contend with by liberal feminists. Mostly, their extreme input into feminist discussion was met with eye-rolling and “Perhaps we don’t need to go quite that far.” We were unprepared for the problem rising in our own liberal branch.

From the 1980s, some internal criticisms of liberal feminism began to be made. Liberal feminism as a whole was charged with not recognizing the additional problems faced by black and Asian women and lesbians, and being largely centered on middle-class problems. These were valid criticisms which needed addressing and prioritizing. All women must have equality. Many liberal feminists began to dedicate more time to LGBT rights and highlight the particular vulnerability of women living in communities which adhered to oppressive patriarchal religion, particularly Islam, and subjected women and girls to “honor” violence and genital mutilation. They did this within universal liberal feminism and some still do but in this decade, the academic shift in the humanities and social sciences towards postmodernism began, and gradually filtered through to feminism in praxis. Intersectionality was forming.

People are often confused about what postmodernism is and what it has to do with feminism. Very simplistically, it was an academic shift pioneered by Jean-Francois Lyotard and Jean Baudrillard which denied that reliable knowledge could ever be attained and claimed that meaning and reality themselves had broken down. It rejected large, overarching explanations (meta-narratives) which included religion but also science, and replaced them with subjective, relative accounts (mini-narratives) of the experiences of an individual or sub-cultural group. These ideas gained great currency in the humanities and social sciences and so became both an artistic movement and a social “theory.” They rejected the values of universal liberalism, the methods of science and the use of reason and critical thinking as the way to determine truth and form ethics. Individuals could now have not only their own moral truths but their own epistemological ones. The expression “It’s true for me” encapsulates the ethos of postmodernism. To claim to know anything to be objectively true (no matter how well-evidenced) is to assert a meta-narrative and to “disrespect” the contrary views of others which is oppressive (even if those views are clearly nonsense.) The word “scientism” was created for the view that evidence and testing are the best way to establish truths.

At its height, postmodernism as an artistic movement produced non-chronological, plotless literature and presented urinals as art. In social theory, postmodernists “deconstructed” everything considered true and presented all as meaningless. However, having done this, there was nowhere else to go and nothing more to say. In the realm of social justice, nothing can be accomplished unless we accept that certain people in a certain place experience certain disadvantages. For this, a system of reality needs to exist, and so new theories of gender and race and sexuality began to emerge comprised of mini-narratives. These categories were held to be culturally constructed and constructed hierarchically to the detriment of women, people of color and LGBTs. Identity was paramount.

Liberal feminist aims gradually shifted from the position:

“Everyone deserves human rights and equality, and feminism focuses on achieving them for women.”


“Individuals and groups of all sexes, races, religions and sexualities have their own truths, norms and values. All truths, cultural norms and moral values are equal. Those of white, Western, heterosexual men have unfairly dominated in the past so now they and all their ideas must be set aside for marginalized groups.”

Liberal feminism had shifted from the universality of equal human rights to identity politics. No longer were ideas valued on their merit but on the identity of the speaker and this was multifaceted, incorporating sex, gender identity, race, religion, sexuality and physical ability. The value of an identity in social justice terms is dependent on its degree of marginalization, and these stack up and vie for primacy. This is where liberal feminism went so badly wrong. When postcolonial guilt fought with feminism, feminism lost. When it fought with LGBT rights, they lost too.

So aware of Western imperialism having trampled on other cultures historically, Western liberal feminism now embraced their most patriarchal aspects. A Western liberal feminist can, on the same day, take part in a slut walk to protest Western women being judged by their clothing and accuse anyone criticizing the niqab of Islamophobia. She can demand the prosecution of a Christian baker for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same sex-couple, and condemn the planning of a Gay Pride march through a heavily Muslim area as racist. Many intersectional feminists do not limit themselves to the criticism of other white, Western feminists but pour vitriolic, racist abuse on liberal Muslim and ex-Muslim feminists and LGBT activists. The misogyny and homophobia of Christianity may be criticized by all (quite rightly) but the misogyny and homophobia of Islam by none, not even Muslims. The right to criticize one’s own culture and religion is seemingly restricted to white westerners (The best analysis of “The Racism of Some Anti-racists” is by Tom Owolade).

Universal liberal feminists were horrified by this development. Our old adversaries, the radical feminists, looked positively rational in comparison. They might tell us we are culturally conditioned into internalized misogyny, and they certainly had a pessimistic and paranoid worldview but at least it was coherent. The intersectional feminists were not even internally consistent. In addition to the cultural relativity, the rules change day by day as new sins against social justice are invented. We opposed the radical feminists for their extreme antipathy towards men but at least they shared a bond of sisterhood with each other. The intersectional feminists not only exhibit great prejudice against men but also turn on each other at the slightest imagined infraction of the rules. Having not the slightest regard for reason or evidence, they vilify and harass those imagined to have transgressed.

In addition to their failure to support the most vulnerable women in society, intersectional feminism cultivated a culture of victimhood, negatively impacting all women in society but particularly young women. Women are oppressed, we are told, by men explaining anything, spreading their legs on a train and committing vague sins like “expecting unequal amounts of emotional labour.” If they call out to us or proposition us, we should be terrified. If obnoxious men attempt to grope us or succeed, we have experienced an appalling sexual assault from which we may never recover. Not only are we oppressed by seemingly all men but by anyone expressing anti-feminist ideas or feminist ones we don’t like. More than this, we are rendered “unsafe” by them, particularly those women who are trans and may have to hear that a trans exclusionary radical feminist has said something in a place they don’t have to go to. It is hard to imagine how women manage to survive leaving the house at all.

Even in the house, we cannot be entirely sure of “safety.” Men might say mean things to us on the internet, and we couldn’t possibly cope with that. In reality, I find the opposite problem more concerning. Recently, in a disagreement with an intersectional feminist man, he began to change his mind! Much encouraged, I continued the discussion. After some time, I checked his bio and spotted that he was carrying on a parallel conversation with another man in which he was expressing exactly the same views he had since changed in our conversation. Challenging him on this, I was informed that he did not feel he should disrespect my lived experience as a woman by contradicting it with his own views as a man. However, he still disagreed with me and felt able to say so to another man. I could not get him to see that all this had achieved was excluding me from the conversation and wasting my time. I might as well have been made to withdraw to the drawing room to let the men talk.

Perhaps men might criticize our academic writing or blogs? Richard Dawkins was accused of misogyny for mocking a postmodernist sociology essay that happened to have been written by a woman (He’d mocked one written by a man a few days earlier). He was asked, by numerous people, why he hated intelligent women or why he had to criticize women’s writing? Surely, it should be clear to everyone that not doing so excludes women from academic discussion? If we want to be taken seriously as academics (or as bloggers), we need people to be able to criticize our work.

Like many universal liberal feminists of my generation and above, I decided to hang on and try to tackle, from the inside, the problems of cultural relativity, science denial, raging incivility and the disempowerment of women by feminists. This resulted in my being blocked by feminists, told I am not a feminist, called an “anti-feminist,” a “MRA,” a “misogynist” and even a “rape apologist” (I had suggested that the men who invented date-rape drug detecting nail polish were well-intentioned). I have been told to fuck myself with a rusty chainsaw, and that I am a confused middle-aged woman who does not understand society. Following one encounter with a feminist in which I said I did not get death and rape threats from men, a new account with a male name was suddenly set up which began sending me some.

At the same time, non-feminists were telling me that I was not what they understood by “feminist” or even asserting that I was not a feminist. I assured them I was because I was concerned about female genital mutilation, “honor” violence and forced marriage affecting British women today and rarely prosecuted. I am opposed to the disempowerment of young women who are being told that they cannot cope with different ideas and that criticism is abusive by feminists in universities and schools. Are these not pressing issues affecting women? My friend, Kath, a recovering RadFem, helped clarify my thoughts on this.

This is true. I agree with Ayaan Hirsi Ali that western feminism needs to stop focusing on “trivial bullshit.” I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for women who feel traumatized and excluded by scientists’ shirts or video games. When it comes to the little things, the playing field becomes much more even. We all have gendered expectations we’d rather not comply with. I suggest not doing it. There is very little point in complaining about gender expectations whilst perpetuating them. The idea that women cannot defy such expectations because of fear of disapproval seems contrary to the entire ethos of feminist activism and those who have gone before us.

I think it’s time I accepted that “feminism” no longer means “the aim for equal rights for women” but is understood to refer to the current feminist movement which encompasses so much more and very little that I want to be associated with. I posted this on Twitter recently:

The serious issues faced by British women that I want to be involved in are encompassed by human rights activism, and the disempowerment of young women can only be opposed, sadly, by opposing feminism itself.

I used to be pleased when people told me that I had made them think more positively about feminism, but now I fear that this may simply have prevented that person from criticizing a movement that really needs to be criticized. Feminism has lost its way and should not have public respectability until it remedies this. It seems that more and more people are realizing this. A recent study showed that only 7% of Brits identify as feminist although over two thirds support gender equality. My sadness at abandoning the identity bequeathed to me by my mother is mixed with anger when I consider that she too, a woman who was instrumental in getting banking qualifications opened to women, would now be regarded as deeply problematic.

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  1. I used to consider myself a left wing progressive. But thanks to these feminist crazies, I just can’t anymore. I completely rejected the label. I’m not on the right either, since I think there are many problems with capitalism and I’m an atheist who despises all religion and its slave morality. I’m just nothing today. At my core I am still very anti-authoritarian. I consider feminism very authoritarian, hostile and puritanical.

    1. That’s the thing. YOU are a Progressive Lefty THEY are not. They are the Regressive Left who are mostly Centerist anyway. Don’t let these nuts take our Traditional Lefty Identity from us.

  2. Looks like feminism ultimately became a victim of its own success. With its core goals achieved, equal rights for women before the law, the movement developed new ideas like new minorities that suffer from oppression, new battles to be fought, ultimately becoming more extreme.

    What’s strange about feminism today is it’s immaturity. There is no discussion or argumentation about it involved, either you are on the right side or you are an enemy that needs to be silenced at least, better yet socially destroyed. Freedom of speech not wanted, instead opponents will be dehumanized. There’s a totalitarian mindset behind this.

  3. Thank you for writing this. I thought maybe I was crazy or unknowingly a horrible person. I’ve been getting raked over the coals over a comment I made on a Facebook post of a friend that said men on the internet condoned sexual harassment, rape culture, policing women’s clothing, etc… I felt defensive and said I didn’t condone those things and that most men wouldn’t condone those things either. I’ve now been painted by everyone as a mysoginyst who is part of a male patriarchy and then was hit with a bunch of “not all men” comments and told that I proved the meme and that “yes all men”.

    I’ve been really upset about it and have been posting back and forth about how I support equal rights for women and all minorities in society and under the law. I argued “not all men” for the same reasons you wouldn’t argue “all Muslims”, “all black people”, or even “all women”. I was told that I should be quiet, stay in my lane, that I was showing my ignorance and that I should go learn something. I’ve spent hours reading through blogs trying to understand how I might be an inadvertent mysoginist, but I’m just not getting it. The comments got really nasty even though I stayed really civil. I knew I was in unfriendly waters, so I was treading extra carefully.

    I really feel like the good guy here, but everyone else is holding me up as an example of mysoginy. I don’t know what else to do except not be a white cis-gendered man and speak at the same time. I hate to just walk away and have everyone think I’m a mysoginist and really am open to rational arguments that challenge my world view if there is something I’m missing, but I’m not really getting any thing that is helping me to understand what I’m supposed to do or how to adjust my thinking. I really am sympathetic and am trying to understand their point of view.

    1. Don’t let it bother you too much. I would stay away from Facebook if you don’t like the Feminist lynch mobs. Sadly the misogyny shaming is fairly common nowadays. It’s a dangerous time to be a man that does not follow the narrative.
      We live in a fully “femcentric” society today. Men are considered less than human.

        1. Yeah because being a president makes you an absolute ruler and you don’t have to cater to your special interests groups….like feminist and N.O.W. Fucking simpleton

    2. Yeah, I’ve gotten similar responses on FB and in person whenever I critique feminist claims. I’m a woman and consider myself feminist, and yet I now feel very wary of ever discussing my actual questions and opinions with my friends who are more radical. I have actually heard friends tell me that questions and alternate opinions are not welcome because they obstruct the progress of feminism *yikes*!

  4. Like so many movements, once they begin to see their accomplishments make them more mainstream, once their success has brought about need change and reform, many believe that the ball rolling in the right direction has created a shift that will be permanent and enduring, the more moderate members are often pushed out as the objective changes to a new level extreme – made necessary to have a battle to fight, to ostensively preserve the movement and ironically betray the original cause.

  5. I suggest all feminist who do not accept the modern extreme feminism to admit that their train is hijacked, and they have to leave it. Make new ideology, call it with new name, define it better for what it should be, so it won’t be easy for hijack by extremists.

  6. The only thing I have to disagree with is that I do think rape culture is still prevalent in the United States and England – I experienced it growing up in the US. I also feel “appropriation” is a real thing. In fact, I think trans women are appropriating from both bio women and lesbians. Otherwise, I am in complete agreement. As far as gender constructs go, however, liberal feminists claim it is a construct then also seem to claim gender is biologically innate when supporting trans ideology – totally contradictory.. I have my own blog now called “anthrofeminism” where I try to reclaim the word intersectional. I have covered things like how climate change disproportionately impacts women, the rising maternal death rates in the US (particularly among black women), how a federal legal loophole allows white men to rape Native American women and get away with it (80-90% of men who rape Native women are white men), my concerns about prostitution and sex trafficking…I do plan to do one on FGM in the United States as that is a concern. None of this is talked about in liberal feminism, but as I have learned with my blog many feminists want to talk about these subjects, radical and recovering liberal alike. In fact, I think radical feminism has become a bit less radical because it is incorporating women who wouldn’t have considered themselves radical feminists but hate liberal feminism.

    I am in total agreement about trigger warnings, they are ridiculous. You know, you don’t really need a trigger warning if it says the word “rape” in the headline.

    And love the line “More than this, we are rendered “unsafe” by them, particularly those women who are trans and may have to hear that a trans exclusionary radical feminist has said something in a place they don’t have to go to.”

    1. Thank you for this. A lot of comments, and the article, seem to imply that since we’re not getting stoned to death, there’s no sexism. And denying rape culture blatantly ignores the inevitable victim-blaming as well as the slap on the wrists that the perpetrators receive. It’s like saying, “Since slavery is over, racism doesn’t exist, so be grateful and stop complaining.”

    2. What a self serving load of bullshit throughout your entire post. ” I do think rape culture is still prevalent in the United States and England” Except that the only rape culture that ever actually existed was in prison, where the population is mostly male and where the concept actually comes from. There has always been rules and laws about rape and it has always been looked down upon.
      “how climate change disproportionately impacts women” is yet another giant wad of bullshit. In fact you prove the premise of narcissistic woman by that mark. Something effecting the entire planet and species, but somehow its “worse” for you? GTFOH.
      “the rising maternal death rates in the US” Pictures or stfu. It’s that simple.
      “how a federal legal loophole allows white men to rape Native American women and get away with it”,- more complete asinine bullshit and hyperbolic garbage. Prove it. “80-90% of men who rape Native women are white men” And did you know that 99% of the men in Ghana who commit burglary are black? It’s almost as if math and ratios are involved.
      “I do plan to do one on FGM in the United States as that is a concern.” WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? That is ILLEGAL pretty much everywhere and is in no way whatsoever some kind of epidemic. On the other hand MGM is rampant, legal and as feminists like to make sure of, considered “different” even though it isn’t.

      This entire little sproof of yours reads as an indoctrinated bit of gender studies crap that you were Told and not part of any actual Reality. Just sad.

    1. Wow, you do realise that Marxist Feminists hate 3rd Wave RadFems and Identity politics in general because they consider Identity Politics to be a smokescreen that distracts us all from Class Warfare and keeps us all at each other’s throats and away from rising up against our real oppressors..

      3rd Wave RadFems are all Western Middle Class White Women recasting them selves as victims to absolve them selves of their guilt.

  7. I agree with the author whole-heartedly. How any person, especially a woman, can call herself a feminist, but excuse the horrors of islam is baffling and appalling.

  8. Amen. You put into words what I have thought for YEARS. In America I was raised by a Mom and Dad who treated their sons and daughters equally and helped us to navigate our childhoods with the belief we could be whatever we wanted to be. I was prevented from taking “drafting” in high school in 1986, and my sweet, wonderful high school Principal would not cave in letting me take that class, even though I wanted to be an Architect. I didn’t hold it against him. Or Society. I went to ABC night school to learn it, got a job as a Pipe Fitter Drafting up high pressure chemical and oil lines for my summer job to put myself through Architecture School ANYWAY. When I graduated from College, I saw my H.S. Principal at Church, and told him that in spite of him not allowing me to take drafting class, I was now an Architect. He was very proud of me, especially as my Father told him it was no thanks to him! LOL….Most kids today turn out feminist. We are raised that way. Especially in the working class and middle class,where we have to find out how to get what we want by overcoming societal and gender specific norms and bashing down the old walls from the past. It angers me when these “snowflakes” that we call them have interloped upon and discredited MY FEMINIST SUCCESS ON MY OWN, by claiming that somehow their feminist mindset of constant whining and man bashing is responsible for my success…..like I couldn’t have it without them. THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT. I like to call myself a first wave feminist, because Katy Stanton and Susan B. Anthony would be apalled at what passes for feminism today……one thing left out of your commentary: Abortion. In America if you do not support unfettered abortion of children up until the day of birth, you are anti woman, and not a feminist. American Feminists are cruel statist pigs, no different than Stalin or Hitler, when it comes to putting a price on a human life, also known as SLAVERY. American Third Wave Feminists are plain and simple EVIL people. Just evil. It is why only 18% of American women identify with Feminism today.

  9. “Many liberal feminists began to dedicate more time to LGBT rights and highlight the particular vulnerability of women living in communities which adhered to oppressive patriarchal religion, particularly Islam, and subjected women and girls to “honor” violence and genital mutilation.”

    When did this happen, exactly? Was it during a Thursday afternoon tea? Brief discussion…decide you’d rather not be stoned or raped to death by the adherents of the religion of peace…table discussion indefinitely. Was that how it went?

    I also remember the mighty sword of feminist justice being wielded against the serial rapists in Rotherham. Or maybe I don’t.

    Here’s a pro-tip for all those aspiring to be the next Madonna/Hillary/Sarandon/Cher Nasty Woman wannabies: Take care of the big stuff before you break out the p*ssy hats and full-body vagina outfits to demand we all pay for your birth control and kotex.

    The woman being stoned to death in some Islamic hell-hole because she had the temerity to be gang-raped by her brother’s friends and then complain about it(!) – leading to her conviction of adultery, and thus the stoning – will have the peace of mind knowing that you were a powerful, nasty-woman in your little pink hat.

    1. “The woman being stoned to death in some Islamic hell-hole because she had the temerity to be gang-raped by her brother’s friends and then complain about it(!) ”
      What are your constructive suggestions that women in the West should do to combat the rape, torture and slaughter of women in Islamic hell-holes?

  10. The author is still a feminist–small f–the way many of us are still small-l liberals. We care about human beings being treated humanely, free speech, free thought, property rights, etc. However, wealth and refusing to face actual oppression (found in the Arab world) has turned capital-f Feminism into an irrelevant joke.

    1. There does come a time when one is damned if they do and damned if they don’t so “feminist” opinions have no substantive value to one’s life. What do women want? Hard to tell when they don’t seem to know themselves.

  11. I have spent my life trying to treat everyone with decency, equally. Otherwise, I’ve tried to ignore the distractions and demands of identity own-group-preference movements, and still have to listen to insults and demands of one thig-or-another from complete strangers.

    This has made me hostile to anything demanded in the name of feminism. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist gets nothing from me. No job. No working late to cover for their personal need for time. Not even support for any other item with whom I would agree. They give nothing back to society.

  12. Hey thanks for writing this up! As a feminist political philosopher, i must remark though that many characterizations concerning postmodern philosophy are plain wrong – which seems especially problematic under the heading “postmodernism is evil bc it relativizes truth” (which i would think is not true in any sense of the word).

    1) “The expression “It’s true for me” encapsulates the ethos of postmodernism.” this is an obvious contradiction everybody knows that. Baudrillard, lyotard etc are much smarter, can you provide a quote maybe?

    As far as i can see (and i have studied these thinkers for about a decade by now), esp. Baudrillard has nothing but spite for ‘individual truths’ holding that there s a conceptual problem with ‘truth’ and its representation (a problem that all famous philosophers – from plato and Aristotle, spinoza, through kant and hegel etc recognize and address in some way) which escalates (!) with the rise of mass media.
    Lyotard, however, in ‘postmodern condition’ is giving a description (not a systematic argument) of a development that he sees throughout the 60s and 70s (which relates for example to the east/west ‘blocks’). He later on writes excessively about what he calls’ le different’- a point of rupture in communication, the point where members of different communities seem to not be able to say things to one another – he s trying to provide a theory of the gaps between the ‘communities’ (a problem that for example analytic philosopher wvo quine was also very interested in) which in your depiction of ‘postmodern’ theory seem to stand unconnected.
    Be that as it may, all of them have a thorough interpretation and critique of kant, who does indeed hold that all’ truth’ is generated in the subject, though under ‘objective’ conditions. That’s the closest that it gets to your statement here i think ..? (and that’s 18th century).
    I am not saying that they are ‘right’ – but i m saying that their theories are much, much more nuanced than what i can discern from the text here presented.

    2) how is it that the important women in the gang – spivak, irigaray, cixous, mohanty, harraway etc etc. Are not even mentioned? For it is not the case that there was no critique, that these battles had not been fought (see esp. Buttler ‘strategic alliances’ and spivak ‘strategic essentialism’) and that baudrillard and lyotard (who are those you mention here) had not been used, appropriated, criticized etc (compare linda singer’ erotic welfare’ etc).

    I thus wonder about the truthfulness, if such a thing exists, of this article – if your reading of sources you croticizeis so far off the mark, then what kind of ‘universalism’ could you possibly ‘defend’ here?

    All best,


    1. “”Your reading of X is incorrect!””

      …said the person simultaneously asserting that there are no correct, universal readings, and otherwise completely ignoring the rest of the article.

      Your comment provides a wonderful example of the essential vacuousness of PoMo intellectualism. “‘Challenging everything’, while saying nothing.”

    2. The point of referencing Lyotard and Baudrillard (as i read it) was not to advance any systematic critique of their specific arguments

      The point was to simply note that the “PoMo” intellectual-culture which has dominated universities since the 1980s (and which those thinkers influenced) has come to produce a completely different popular conception about what ‘feminism’ is, what ‘social-justice’ requires, and has completely eroded younger people’s ability to carry on reasoned debate free from any identity-based claims of de-facto oppression/victimhood.

      IOW, the subject of the piece is not a narrow critique of L&B; its about far wider, pervasive intellectual trend which those thinkers (and others) have influenced.

      tl;dr – Forest, Trees

      1. Thanks!

        1) “said the person simultaneously asserting that there are no correct, universal readings,”
        – where do i say that? In fact i think that things are much more complicated bc ‘there are no universal readings’ is in fact a universal statement. Which is whyno pomo ever actuadid hold that position.

        2) “referencing lyotard etc” vs “systematic critique”
        -> so false information is ok if the systematic background is ignored? Please clarify.

        3) also note thr mentioning of the ‘pissoir as art’ on the ‘hight of postmodernism’.
        ‘fountain’ by duchamp isa piece from 1917 and can in any case not be an effect of lyotard/ baudrillard, who got popular from the 60s onwards.

        What i m saying is that the article is performatively contradicting itself: claiming universalism while engaging in the very ignorance allegedly specific to ‘postmodernism.’ that s worth pointing out, is it not?

  13. Excellent article. The explanation of postmodernism and its pernicious influence quite helpful. Elucidating. I don’t call myself a “feminist” for the reasons you described, although I am very concerned with FGM, child brides, honor killings, forced marriages, rape and trafficking. We (my generation is Generation X) didn’t have to fight to get into the professions and it is laudable what women before us accomplished, although there are issues that have always bothered me such as what is really the impact on children and families of (both parents e.g. moms) working FT? (I was a latchkey only child with a mom who prioritized her career and then even got a PhD. She was accomplished but I felt secondary. and lonely,) and though there are women who don’t want any children, feminism doesn’t as a movement really support (doesn’t seem like it has ever supported) the concept that women might really want children and that might bring them more satisfaction than a career yet they could still want opportunity and equality and respect for women as a whole. Women are in a bind I think because many of us have a need, for whatever reason, biological, emotional, to have children to share our love, and there is both a limited time window for this as well as consequences for either profession or family and one will suffer.

  14. Hello Mrs. Pluckrose, I hope you don’t mind if I leave a comment to your excellant post. I was shown it by a friend, who has recently de-converted from the status quo feminism. I am strangely enough in the opposite position from you. For most of my life I was a socially Conservative Christian, and very recently I have become a more progressive Christian Feminist. I am also a boy.

    First of all, I really appreaciated your critic of post-modernism. I find it to be a rather useless philosophy, and it seems to lead to a certain nihilistic attitude towards life that is very frustrating to deal with. I go to a very, very left-leaning school(my Feminist drama teacher said that courts should assume guilty until proven innocent in the case of female rape), and have encountered this very frustrating attitude before where your opinion doesn’t matter unless you are XYZ marginalized group. I admit that this makes debate very frustrating, and is certainly dragging feminism down. I hate how “bro” and “man” are being used as a suffix for anything these types of people dislike. Identity politics is very irritating, and frankly, unecessary.

    Okay, now to where I disagree with you. I approve of your opposition to FGM, honour killings, and forced marriages. All of these I find abhorent, and are certainly things all Feminists should oppose. I also agree that forced clothing laws, such as those in Iran and Saudi Arabia, are to be opposed. However, what I will fight to the death to maintain are the rights of women to where the Hijab if they so choose. To do anything else goes against the religious rights of those women and their right to express themselves modestly how they wish. I can promise you that most Muslim women did not see the below Trump supporter as a liberator. In fact, many Muslim women proudly wear the Hjab as a choice. Do you really think that being a Muslim woman who wears a Hijab makes Malala any less of a Feminist?

    Second, you are using people who are frankly disreputable to back you up. Take for instance, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She draws her claim to fame from being a refugee, who still supports ending immigration and aid. However, she is just an economic immigrant who made up large parts of her stroy. This calls her crediability for, well, anything into severe question. Next is Richard Dawkins. Although a noted scientist, Richard Dawkins has said that he believes that a Muslim is not fit to be a serious journalist, and who penned a rather weak attack on religion called The God Delusion, which has been fiercely criticized and debunked in numerous articles.

    Third, I think you are a bit too harsh on the importance of cultural critique. Video games are indeed very fun, but to be criticized for their sexism is no bad thing. Same with music videos and books. Although this isn’t grounds for anyone to get “triggered” about, it is still useful to have thoughtful critique of sexist values that still linger within society. Also, I thought you were a bit dismissive of sexual assault, which is real problem in my country.

    Thank you for your time, and I hope you will respond.

  15. found this late in the day, would say that as somebody Scottish what concerns me most is the childish pulp USA women pump on twitter and FB, neither sterilization or abortion protects ANYBODY from STIs, CONDOMS do. Sick of getting unsafe sex messages dressed as feminism. My 20 yr old son would not get a vasectomy here in Scotland where we have free contraception and the country in which UK & USA abortion under medical grounds comes from. That would be because he will not be the same person at 40 yrs old that he is at 20 yrs old and like every other person on this planet he will have changed his mind about certain things and children may well be one of them. He also understands that vasectomy does NOT prevent STIs but condoms do. Although he has not yet had sex it is why he has a condom, instead of screaming that he can’t get a vasectomy because some women he has not yet met owns his body. Yes you have a right to put as many doughnuts into your body as you like, but you have no right to expect anybody else to pay for them, you can put as many pills inside you as you like but you have no right to demand I pay for them or put them in you because it is your body – If I am committing assisted euthanasia, should not be because it is your body, should be because it is the most ethical option. If I am committing euthanasia it should be to give you extra time with friends and family that you would lose if you committed suicide at the point you were physically capable of doing so, or not damning you to insufferable pain for a few more months with said family and friends. A foetus is a potential human and biologically alive that is not religion that is science, to describe it as a blood clot is to dehumanize the potential human in all humanity, this is unnecessary and dishonest nobody believes this in reality they know full well that foetus grows into a human being, all the language does it promote ideology of identity politics and that is the dehumanization of everybody. I am not my VULVA and yes I said Vulva because that is what it is, NOT a Vagina, any more than any man is his PENIS, or any disabled person is their disability, or any person is their skin colour.

  16. And this is why I identify as an egalitarian and human rights advocate. All people deserve equal opportunities and there is no overarching system keeping any particular group down on a massive scale in “the Western World”. Both men and women have different advantages and disadvantages which deserve to be addressed independently.

    As soon as I learned that women had legal advantages over men and that feminism was a fight for women’s rights which assumed they were inherently worse off, I instantly stopped identifying as one. When I hear “feminism” I don’t hear “a belief in equality for women,” but instead “a belief that patriarchy is holding women down.” Equality feminism is a lost cause in my opinion, as it has been achieved (when applied to the Western world at least).

    Don’t let identity politics determine your viewpoints or beliefs. If you want to keep identifying as an equality feminist, I won’t look down at you for it, but it seems like a waste of breath when egalitarianism is a more inclusive belief system and doesn’t come with ideas of any groups being “oppressed” by others. If you stay a feminist, don’t follow what others do because you call yourself one. Be critical of any given ideas, no matter how you identify, and remember that feminism has an agenda to continue to exist.

  17. Welcome to why, as a male, I have left the democratic party entirely here in the states.

    I’m a moderate and socilized to the left, but I recognize when my party has been seized upon by the same toxic, science-denying bigots I hated dealing with from the bush camp.

    For the sake of civilization and my ability to find a psychologically healthy life partner, I find myself exiting the left’s camp and working with those who will put them into check.

    Thus, I voted Trump, and will continue to vote for him and those like him until the left regains its sanity.

    1. i know that the left, for reasons not clear to me, associate Trump with being pro-male. I find the notion thoroughly misguided. I find him to be an unelectable idiot (and Hillary to be devious and sexist), so I am jaundiced: but the only thing remotely pro-male he has done has been to push back against feminist extremism.

      But MOST people are against feminist extremism. It will die out on its own; look at what is happening with campus rape tribunals – slowly but securely, through a mixture of litigation and reason, things are settling down.

      On the other hand, look at what he is saying that is anti-male. He opposes abortion for gay men. He opposes default shared custody in divorce. He opposed alimony reform (an initiative driven, ironically enough, by the 3% of alimony payers that are female) in Florida. He accused (black) men of rape although they were since proven innocent (too lazy to google, Central Park Five?). And as for the big men’s rights issues – longevity, violence, including domestic and sexual, happiness rates, health, education – I have not heard any sympathetic words from his side.

      In fact, I think the reason pundits associate him with men’s rights is because of his behavior towards woman – which may not be by far as predatory as claimed, but at any rate dripping with disrespect and opportunism. That has nothing to do with men’s rights; on the contrary – the notion that you first have to be rich like Trump to have access to women lies at the heart of what is holding men (and women) back.

      So while I find Hillary’s sexism disgusting, it is, unfortunately, within the Democratic party that we have the best chance to find funding for men’s health, better father’s rights, and DV protection for male victims.

  18. I’m a gay man from the States, and so I can’t claim to have insight into everything that Helen Pluckrose talks about from her POV as a British woman.

    Nonetheless, there were certain parallels that struck me. I’ve known gay people who formerly identified as “Queer,” and very proudly so, but then they reached a point where they said, “You know what? The word ‘Queer’ now puts me in mind of overly earnest college students getting into histrionics over minor grievances, and thrusting their fists in the air and chanting recycled ’60s slogans and wearing rainbow Che Guevara T-shirts, so I’m done with ‘Queer’ and going back to ‘Gay’.”

    And there gay people who say “Radical left-wing assumptions have outlived much of their original necessity. Despite conservative resistance, the Republican party has significantly improved on LGBT issues — and in areas like small-business-growth and property taxes, I consider them much better than the ‘LGBT-friendly’ Democrats who expect my unquestioning loyalty. So I’m going to start voting Republican, and I don’t give a damn if other gay people call me a ‘Quislng,’ because knee-jerk references to Nazi Germany are often a symptom of intellectual bankruptcy.”

    1. And, come to think, it’s not always about political disgruntlement. Sometimes there’s just a sense that a formerly useful label has acquired too much cultural baggage. Theere are “post-gay” MSMs who argue, “The word ‘Gay’ was originally a coded euphemism from the days when asking a good-looking dude ‘Are you a homosexual?’ could get you charged with slander. But those days are thankfully gone and the word ‘Gay’ makes me think of guys who overpay for fashionable shoes and mistakenly believe that they’re as witty as Oscar Wilde. So goodbye to ‘Gay’ — from now on I’d rather be ‘Openly Homo’.”

      In short, I think I understand Pluckrose’s general sense of frustration with the term “feminist,” but it’s not something limited to feminism.

  19. Beautifully written, and I’ll be bookmarking this to quote in the future.
    I too have, despite standing against modern feminism for quite a while now, struggled with the simple though that in some ways I still consider myself “feminist” because of what that word SHOULD mean, but at the same time am “anti-feminist” because of what the ideology and movement has BECOME.

    This article has put into words thoughts and feelings I’ve had for a long while now far better than I could ever have hoped to do.

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